Homosexual Questions Uncovered
2011-03-06 at 05:06 pm
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I dunno what’s wrong with this video. I can hear the sound, but can’t see the video.
Well, if you can’t see it, you can listen along as you read my erudite responses to some of the questions and answers.
Question: Why should I even trust the Bible in the first place?
First of all, I think this is the wrong question. I doubt anybody’s gonna trust the Bible or not trust it on somebody else’s say so. That’s something each person has to read it and decide for themselves.
A better question would be, why should I trust your interpretation of the Bible?
The P4CM answers to the initial question are generally all about interpretation.
For instance, predictive prophecy. Sure, the Bible contains prophecies that seem to have been fulfilled. Whether or not they really have been fulfilled is a matter of faith, not fact. It’s easy to write a prophecy years after the fact and claim it’s been fulfilled, or to write something and, frankly, just make up facts to make it fit prophecy.
Despite what the P4CM folks say, we do not have any of the original manuscripts for any book of the Bible. (No, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not the original manuscripts.)
One of the core prophecies of Christian belief is the virgin birth of Jesus. It seems pretty cut and dried.
- Matthew 1:22-23:
“Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
The author of Matthew is quoting from Isaiah 7:14.
- “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
That sounds like a prophecy fulfilled, until you read Isaiah 7 in context and take a closer look at that word “virgin.”
The Hebrew word translated virgin is almah, meaning a young woman of marriageable age. The actual Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah, which Isaiah uses elsewhere when he specifically means virgin (23:12, 37:22, 47:1, 62:5).
The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament from the 3rd century BC, translated almah as parthenos, which does mean virgin. Matthew, like most of the New Testament writers, was quoting from the Septuagint.
It can be argued that the whole virgin birth thing is based on a mistranslation. That’s one interpretation. It can also be argued that almah can mean virgin. That’s another interpretation.
I really didn’t want to get into the virgin debate. That would be a whole blog in itself. It’s just a good example of how these fulfilled prophecies are not necessarily proof of anything.
Question: How does God feel about gay marriage?
Oy….
The P4CM answers to this one don’t even fall into the realm of interpretation. It’s more along the lines of interpolation.
“God is definitely for a man and woman to be married because that’s all you see in the Bible.”
Okay. If we’re going by what we see in the Bible, then God is clearly for a man having multiple wives and concubines.
“The only time that homosexuality is mentioned in the Bible is in a negative sense.”
No.
I’m still waiting for somebody to point out to me where homosexuality is mentioned at all. All I’ve ever read in the Bible are specific same sex acts mentioned in the context of paganism and prostitution (which were pretty much the same thing in those days).
It would be fair to ask, how is the relationship between David and Jonathan presented in a negative sense?
It goes back to the first question, why should I trust your interpretation or interpolation of the Bible?
Question: How does God feel about gay adoption?
They didn’t even make it to interpolation on this one, just personal opinion and anecdotes. Not one mention of God’s opinion, so I’ll have say they didn’t answer this question.
Question: How do we know that God actually judged Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexual sin?
Good question. The only thing in the Bible that gives people this idea is the story in Genesis 19 about the angels that came to visit Lot. My question when people bring up the Sodom story is, why do you think the angels were there in the first place?
The P4CM rendering of the story is just a wee bit different from what you read in the Bible.
“In the story it says men from all different parts of Sodom and Gomorrah came to the door.”
Nope. Gomorrah isn’t even mentioned in this story.
- Genesis 19:4
“But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:”
“You know that homosexuality was just running rampant throughout this whole city.”
No, I don’t know that. There’s nothing in the story to imply that.
“God called Lot righteous…. if he’s a righteous man calling homosexuality wicked, that’s God’s heart right there on it.”
Well…. my Bible doesn’t have anything in it about righteous Lot calling homosexuality wicked. It does have a little incident about righteous offering to throw his virgin daughters to an angry mob in order to save the men in the house.
- Genesis 19:8
“Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.”
If he’s a righteous man saying women are less valuable than men he doesn’t even know, well, that must be God’s heart right there on it.
Question: Is there such a thing as a gay Christian?
This question was listed on the website, but either they never got to it on the video or I missed it. I admit, I only listened to about a half hour of the thing, but all the other questions were in order and they skipped over this one.
It’s a question I come across all the time, so I decided to answer it anyway.
Yes.
Last 5 posts by Ingbert
- Northern Kentucky LGBT Pride 2011 - July 10th, 2011
- I dunno.... - July 6th, 2011
- Another Anti-Gay Sermon - July 3rd, 2011
- A local anti-gay church - June 26th, 2011
- How do you like your faggots? - June 4th, 2011
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8 Responses to “Homosexual Questions Uncovered”
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Here’s the link if you want to try the video on their site. It doesn’t work for me there, either.
http://www.p4cm.com/p4cm/video/exhomosexual_questions_uncovered
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I don’t trust or distrust the bible: To me it’s a well written story book
cheers
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Ingbert Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Ehhh…. not so sure about the well written part.
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I am gonna guess that they are not for it!
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Ingbert Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Good guess.
I did eventually listen to the whole thing (still can’t see it) and they finally to the question of whether somebody can be a gay Christian. Their answer, “Absolutely not.”
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In this film, they make a very interesting point about the Bible being comprised of many authors over a very long period of time. Another point they fail to make, is that the books and letters we have now, comprising the old and new testaments are not the only books that were in existence at the time the bible was put together. There are literally thousands of books that never made it to cannon. Some of these books are still around, many are not. Some tell the same stories, but with major differences, some are different stories all together. How can we know, that these books we have now are even worthy of canonization, if we don’t have the comparable books to scrutinize them against. Nope, the decision has already been made for us. What we have now, is what was selected, and even that, is a translation of a translation of a translation ad infinity.
To me, the miracles of the bible (virgin birth etc.) are not the point of the bible. Who really cares if Jesus was born of a virgin or not. It’s really very trivial. Does his not being born of a virgin, change his message or teaching? Does it really change his authority? Considering that both Krishna and other gods were considered to be born of virgins? Jehovah’s Witnesses actually make a big deal debating on whether or not Jesus was crucified on a cross or a stake. C’mon…Really! When one starts to make these distinctions, one misses the meaning. Instead of gleaning the spiritual teachings of the bible, one reduces it to superstitious mystery-filled dogma.
All in all, one must distance ones self away from religious thought. In order to know God, one must transcend religion and politics. A lot of people mean well, but seldom take the time to actually think about God, they just believe whatever their religious leader du jour tells them.
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Ingbert Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 11:10 am
That’s a great point. It’s not so much did such & such really happen, but what is this story trying to tell me? The Bible itself has a lot to say about the difference between the spirit and the letter, “The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Cor. 3:6)
That’s the difference between taking the Bible literally and taking it seriously.
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johnniejeffers Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
Many many people, take into consideration, what makes them feel good. In other words, they say that we (gays) pervert scripture to suit our own needs, when in fact it’s the other way round. They still want to hold onto OT scripture, to suit what they believe, when in fact, NT Scripture is totally opposed to it.
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